Curse

cpukilla · Apr 10, 2005, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Whats the highest possible damage build you can concoct regardless or utility? You can assume that your hexes and/or enchantments stick but not that your target will stand still. Here's mine :

Warrior/Elementalist --Dragon Sword w/ zealot hilt +damage mods, flame artifact, flame wand for ranged attacks, mainly dragon armor.
10(+2-4) Sword, 12 Fire, 8(+1) Strength

Battle Rage (Elite)
Final Thrust
Galrath Slash
Gash
Sever Artery
Conjure Flame
Mark of Trogdor
Glyph of Lesser Energy

Start off with conjure flame and attack someone from afar to build up a bit of adrenaline. Once you have your target picked out run towards him, hit mark of rodgort then battle rage and go to work. You should run through sever-gash-galrath-final thrust in less than 10 seconds, if they are being healed hold off on final thrust and continue cycling through gash and galrath. After you hit final thrust recycle battle rage once you have 4 adrenaline. If you have a zealot hilt then there should be plenty of energy for mark of rodgort again in 20 seconds. You get 20 dps from the -10 pips, plus all the sword and conjure damage. Hows this build look, can anyone build a warrior that puts out more damage?

tastegw · Apr 10, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Mark of Rodgort
For 8-18 seconds, whenever target foe is struck for fire damage, that foe is set on fire for 1-3 seconds.
Hex - 25 energy - 2 cast - 20 recharge

warriors come with 20 base energy

so be sure to use glyph on MoR

you will still have trouble casting MoR

after using glyph of lesser energy, you will have a maximum of 15 energy left, and this only leaves you with 5 energy to play around with.

so inorder to cast your MoR you will have to start with 15 or more energy before doing your glyph/MoR combo cast.

but ya it looks decent, just make sure you have a well trained monk or 2 on your side.

cpukilla · Apr 10, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Offhand you would use a flame artifact for +12 energy, so it should be fine especially when you use the glyph. Even without a zealot hilt you should have enough energy to recast mark with the glyph to help.

Dreamsmith · Apr 10, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpukilla

...can anyone build a warrior that puts out more damage?

Against which opponent? A good Judge's Insight build will do more damage than the one you concocted against a well armored target, but less against a poorly armored one. No one build is going to do more damage under any circumstance -- the game is too conditional (there are no unconditional skills in GW, just some that are a lot more conditional than others).

You're also missing a good speed buff. You could beat the damage output of that build with just about anything if you add Frenzy or Tiger's Fury or the like...

Ensign · Apr 10, 2005, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Over what sorts of timeframes are we talking about? The burst from a couple of attacks, or a full cycle?

Are we counting Gash as dealing 20% damage to the target?

In any case, you're going to want to be Frenzying - Battle Rage doesn't do anything once you have your adrenal skills charged so it's useless for this argument. Same with Glyph of Lesser Energy - no damage, doesn't make the cut. Cast Mark with a focus.

Go up to 16 Swords, 6 Strength (+3 Rune). That's max damage. Use HB as an elite.

You could probably do better with a Strength of Honor / Judge's Insight guy - I know it's better than the W/E in terms of damage and you don't have to deal with the bad Conjure Phantasm.

Peace,
-CxE

cpukilla · Apr 10, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

You could max out this character for more damage with frenzy plus superior runes... I was really thinking max damage usable character, heh. I don't think strength of honor and judge's insight would make up for conjure flame and mark of rodgort. Judges would need to make up for 5 damage per hit and 14 damage per second; judges isn't that powerful especially against the typical caster target.

Let me rephrase, whats the highest damage primary warrior you can build that you would want to take into battle? Lets talk about tombs because it has the most diverse play types at least for the time being. In my build I would change out glyph with frenzy if I had the dragon sword + zealot hilt so that I would have enough energy to maintain both frenzy and mark when I need them. I would avoid major or superior runes and leave sword at 10(+2) because after 12 I don't feel its worth going for the extra points.

Ensign · Apr 10, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpukilla

I was really thinking max damage usable character, heh. I don't think strength of honor and judge's insight would make up for conjure flame and mark of rodgort.

Mark of Rodgort and usable don't belong in the same conversation. Seriously, it's one of the worst DoTs in the game, and it locks your team out of actually useful and efficient DoTs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpukilla

Let me rephrase, whats the highest damage primary warrior you can build that you would want to take into battle?

Either a pure Warrior with Conjure + Trident, or a W/Mo with Strength of Honor / Judge's Insight. Frenzy is in the 'well, duh' category.

Peace,
-CxE

walder · Apr 11, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

This is the me stealing Nash's build high damage Warrior:

W/Mo

14 Axe (+2/+1)
11 Strength (+1)
10 Smite

Frenzy
Penetrating Blow
Eviscerate-E
Axe Twist//Power Attack
Executioner's Strike
Sprint
Strength of Honor
Judge's Insight

Judge's Insight is bad to use when your already in the middle of fighting, but my plan is to throw it on then charge in. That way you don't lower your DPS by that much because your not losing actual fighting time but walking time (think about it...).

cpukilla · Apr 11, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

How is mark a bad dot for a warrior to use? Typically warriors wouldn't take it because of the energy involved, but other than that it will give very high damage against your target. Its not good for a caster to use because it locks them into one target and they have to attack or cast spells to trigger it. Its not flexible and it is easily removed. But a warrior is attacking anyway, there is no reason not to slap on an extra 7 pips of degen. It can be removed easily (the biggest downside), but it only has a 20 second timer, and you will do good damage anyway because of the adrenaline skills and the conjure.

Compared to water trident it will do better dps, does not take time from attacking, and lets you use battle rage to cycle through adrenaline attacks faster. Water trident is useful to stop running foes (and I do love water trident), but with battle rage up you will have perma-sprint so who cares if they run? I think this is a very good use of mark of rodgort, and it will boost dps against a target higher than either water trident + conjure or strength of honor + judge's insight would be able to.

Nash · Apr 11, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Frenzy/100 Blades/Sever Artery/Galrath Slash/Final Thrust/Strength of Honor is high DPS.

Ensign · Apr 11, 2005, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by walder

This is the me stealing Nash's build high damage Warrior

I've tried running a Warrior with Strength of Honor, Judge's Insight, and Frenzy before - the energy is just vicious. You can barely keep it up with a zealous weapon on a naked target, and if you miss a couple times your energy goes to hell and your enchantments / Frenzy goes down. I'd like to run all three, but in practice just running two is pretty tight.

Also, what are you using Strength for? Nothing. Drop that puppy down to the minimum value to still hold a shield, 9.

I have issues with running any attacker without an interrupt, and Axes have one of the best available...

Otherwise, no comments.

---

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpukilla

How is mark a bad dot for a warrior to use? Typically warriors wouldn't take it because of the energy involved

You just answered your own question. You don't run Mark of Rodgort because 25 energy is a ton to spend on a skill that doesn't do much of anything. DoT is cheap for a reason - it's slow acting and isn't particularly scary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpukilla

Its not flexible and it is easily removed.

It's also a huge investment. Remember you're devoting not one, but two skill slots to Mark of Rodgort, just to get it cast - and it still eats up 15 of your 20 energy. Oh, and that 4½ second casting time. For a DoT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cpukilla

you will do good damage anyway because of the adrenaline skills and the conjure.

Sure, so why are you messing around with a grossly overcosted DoT that you have zero chance of recasting? Spend your energy on efficient, sustainable damage. Why kill yourself over a one shot, obvious target when your team can do the same thing much more efficiently?

Mark of Rodgort is a more expensive, more unwieldly, slow casting Conjure Phantasm. I know DoT is sexy, and Mark of Rodgort is a skill that people really want to use, but let it go. You'll thank yourself later.

Peace,
-CxE

cpukilla · Apr 11, 2005, 02:12 AM // 02:12

The reason I like mark with this build is it is the only skill that uses energy other than the conjure and the glyph (both pretty minimal). So why waste that energy, I'd rather use it on a strong dot, the cost doesn't matter as long as I have enough to cast the spell. Given that I can cast mark without costing the build much (it can be done w/o glyph if I have a zealot hilt) it adds just as much damage as the conjure does.

I dunno, the negatives for mark as I see them in this build are 2 second casting time, recast every 20 seconds, single target only, and its a removable hex. The real killer for most builds is the energy, which makes the skill a total wash. But like I said, in this build as long as I have the energy to cast it (I will with either zealous or glyph) nothing else matters because I do not need energy for anything else.

I am not head over heals for mark, I just think this makes a nice build and if I can get a flame hilt I'll try it next weekend and see for myself.

P.S. has anyone found a combo that does do more damage than this? I still don't think judges/strength of honor comes close.

walder · Apr 11, 2005, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I have issues with running any attacker without an interrupt, and Axes have one of the best available...

First, I think your missing Disrupting Chop from the Axe skills section. Second a quick question:

From KT Skills...
Distracting Blow (Melee Attack) Swipe your weapon at the target, doing no damage but disrupting the target's current action (and the actions of foes adjacent to your target). Updated: 12/1/04 5 0.5 sec. 10 sec.

Disrupting Chop (Axe Attack) If it hits, this attack interrupts the target's current action. If that action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds. This attack requires Adrenaline. Updated: 3/18/05 0 None 6A

This says that Disrupting chop has no cast time but you would have to add in .75 seconds that all skills take to cast. Is Distracting Blow special in that the .5 is the actual cast time or do you still have to add on the .75 seconds? I'm just trying to figure out if they would make interrupt spells harder to land or if they made them easier.

Sausaletus Rex · Apr 11, 2005, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Mark of Rodgort is one of those skills you think *should* be good. I mean, its cost and casting and all that would seem to indicate that it's something you'd really want. But, in reality it's a hugely obvious hex that's easily removed with a long recharge time and a huge energy cost. And, for that, it adds the On Fire condition whenever you strike someone for fire damage. That means you add 14DPS. Not 14DPS per hit or per attacker. Just 14DPS. Because if you strike someone with fire damgae again you don't re-set them on fire. You extend the duration of their On Fire. So unlike, say, Barbs or Weaken Armor you don't benefit from adding more attackers because you won't get any extra damage. Add to that the fact that most of the Fire spells - the spells likely to cause fire damage (the only other good sources are Greater Conflagration which is elite and a fire weapon which means you're not using a Zealous mod) - already cause the On Fire condition and you've spent 25 energy and 2 seconds casting a whole lot of nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by walder

I think your missing Disrupting Chop from the Axe skills section.

As of the last, public BWE Disrupting Chop was listed in-game under the Miscellaneous or Unlinked skills. That's where we have it even though it requires an axe. It's not really tied to Axe Mastery as it doesn't have any sort of variable.

Ensign · Apr 11, 2005, 02:42 AM // 02:42

I know Disrupting Chop has been toned down from 4A to 6A, but it's still a really good skill. You aren't going to hit the one second cast spells, but anything longer is fair game. It isn't something you use all the time (though I'd throw it out blind against a lot of Monks and just randomly knock out Orisons or Words), but it is invaluable when you catch someone trying to res, or starting a Firestorm, or a Ghostly Hero trying to take the dias right before a respawn. It just gives you a lot of tactical flexibility at minimal cost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by walder

This says that Disrupting chop has no cast time but you would have to add in .75 seconds that all skills take to cast. Is Distracting Blow special in that the .5 is the actual cast time or do you still have to add on the .75 seconds? I'm just trying to figure out if they would make interrupt spells harder to land or if they made them easier.

Ok, here's how all this works. First, aftercast is something that just applies to spells, signets, rituals - anything that uses a cast animation. It's just the time after the effect that a character spends getting back to his next animation - attacking, casting, whatever. Other skills work differently - stances, for instance, have no usage time and can even be used in the middle of using another skill - renewing Frenzy doesn't slow you down at all.

Most attack skills don't have a cast time listed, and all that means is that the skill is used as a normal attack - it doesn't affect your swing speed at all. So a Power Attack with a sword and no buffs takes the normal 1.33 seconds, while one with a hammer takes 1.75 seconds. If you toss in Frenzy, a sword Power Attack takes .888 seconds.

If a skill has a swing time listed, however, that time replaces the normal swing time of your weapon. So while a Savage Slash will take 1.33 seconds to use, a Distracting Blow only takes half a second to interrupt someone. So the interrupts with listed swing times (Distracting Blow, Distracting Shot, Concussion Shot) are much easier to interrupt with, as they can be timed appropriately.

I don't know how Frenzy or Tiger's Fury affect the swing speeds of the Distracting attacks.

Peace,
-CxE

Dreamsmith · Apr 11, 2005, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

If you toss in Frenzy, a sword Power Attack takes .888 seconds.

I'm confused. 1.33 - 25% = 1.00, no?

Sausaletus Rex · Apr 11, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamsmith

I'm confused. 1.33 - 25% = 1.00, no?

Frenzy and other speed buffs are 33% speed increases now. 33% of 1.33 is roughly .43 seconds so a Frenzied sword or axe swings every .9 seconds. Or, if you want to be accurate, whatever the heck Chuck said.

Nash · Apr 11, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Frenzy said 35% last beta...

Guildenstern · Apr 11, 2005, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I'm a little confused, too. How are attack speed buffs multiplied by the seconds per attack (Swing Rate/Refire Rate?) and attacks per second (Attack Rate)?

For instance, if swords have a swing rate of 4/3=~1.33 seconds/attack, then if frenzied it would be

(4 seconds/3 attacks)(1-1/3)=8/9=~0.888 seconds/attack

as Ensign says. But if you take the reciprical of the swing rate to get the attack rate, and then factor in frenzy wouldn't you get

(3 attacks/4 seconds)(1+1/3)=1 attack/second ?

Which of course is still 1 second/attack when converted back into a swing rate. Am I doing this right? Which value is correct?

Ensign · Apr 11, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Basically you're only inverting one of the terms in your second equation.

The first equation is right:

(4 Seconds / 3 Attacks) * (1 - 1/3) = 8 Seconds / 9 Attacks

Now to invert this you need to invert everything:

(3 Attacks / 4 Seconds) * (1 / (1 - 1/3)) = (3 Attacks / 4 Seconds) * (3/2) = 9 Attacks / 8 Seconds.

So '33% Faster Swing Rate' in game translates into 50% more attacks per time. 'Faster Swing Rate' means that seconds per attack are reduced by the listed percentage, not that the attacks per second are increased. They're playing fast and loose with the term 'faster', but this is the empirically correct result.

Peace,
-CxE